Two Misguided Stupid Things Men Say About Pastors
Today’s blog from Brett Clemmer, Vice President of Man in the Mirror, rings so true because it comes from so many years of firsthand experience….
“Misguided”? Let’s make that “Stupid.”
I’ve been around a bit. In my 14+ years at Man in the Mirror, I’ve talked to hundreds of pastors (at least). There’s not a greater group of dedicated, hard-working, longsuffering people than pastors. I’m the son-in-law of a pastor and the grandson of a pastor. I love pastors!
When we conduct the No Man Left Behind Training for leadership teams, there are often pastors and men’s leaders in the room. At a certain point I always tell the pastors to stop listening for a minute so I can talk to their men. Then I say something like this:
Guys, there are a couple of things I never want to hear you say: First, don’t ever say, “If my pastor knew what it was like in the real world.” Are you kidding me? Of course the pastor doesn’t know what it’s like in the real world. Pastors don’t live there. They live in the worst 10% of the real world. Nobody calls their pastor when they get a raise, they call when they lose their job. They don’t call their pastor about their anniversary, they call when they found strange cell phone numbers on their spouse’s phone or lipstick on their collar. They don’t call their pastor when their kid gets straight A’s, they call when they find pot in their son’s nightstand or a condom in their daughter’s backpack. The real world? They should be so lucky!
And don’t say, “Well, pastors really only work one day a week.” That’s ridiculous. Think about the typical month for a pastor. They have to prepare four, maybe eight (or even more) different sermons and talks. They may have to marry somebody and bury somebody. They have someone calling because they’re not using the “right” Bible translation when they preach, or to complain about a ministry scheduling conflict. Every death, divorce, illness and tragedy in the church begs for their attention. Then they have staff – who are crazy – and elders, who are crazier. The word ‘elder’ in the original Greek means, “Successful business person who loses their mind when they walk into an elders’ meeting.” I can say that. I am one.
So please, don’t say these things. Because if you do, I will come back and find you.
Amidst the laughter in the room there will be pastors who are smiling and nodding, and others who are just staring at the table, afraid their men will see their weakness or disappointment – not in their men, but in themselves. They are often bordering on burnout, and they’re trying to stay strong for their congregation.
Men, be FOR your pastor. Support them, pray for them, serve them, love them. Leaders should develop a reputation among the men of the church: There are two people you don’t say bad things about: my mama, and my pastor.
If your pastor is preaching heresy or mired in unrepentant sin, of course you should speak up. But most of the time when I hear a man complain about his pastor, it’s frustration about church direction or ministry emphasis or a simple personality clash.
If you want to have influence, you have to serve. No one likes the guy who launches verbal grenades – especially passive-aggressive ones – from the periphery. You might not always understand or agree with everything they say or every decision they make. But you also don’t have all the information they have.
I’m not asking you to trust your pastor no matter what. I’m encouraging you to trust God no matter what. He put your pastor in that position, and He loves the church more than you do.
Take a moment and think: Am I fostering an unloving attitude towards my pastor in myself or others? When was the last time I prayed for my pastor? Am I earning influence or demanding it? How can I serve God by serving my pastor and the church?
And please, don’t say stupid things about your pastor. If I find out, I might just come looking for you.
Brett Clemmer
Brett Clemmer is our VP of Leadership Development, training, speaking and writing on behalf of the ministry. He joined Man in the Mirror in 2000 after a career in business and human services. Along with Patrick Morley and David Delk, Brett is the co-author of No Man Left Behind. Brett married Kimberly in 1991, and they have a daughter and son, both in college.
Brilliant. Right on. Thank you, Brett.
You’re welcome, Pastor!
good stuff Brett. Take a look at pastorprayerteam.com
We are helping leaders mobilize a group of 31 men who will take a day of the month each. On that day they will both pray AND affirm their pastor. The affirmation is through a phone call or email or text message. BD
Will do, Brian. Thanks!
At 76, I have been in nany church leadership positions an during 26 of those years served as elder and elder chairman for about 5 of those years . I’ been thru 3 church splits but always supported the pastor. Early on my mother reminded me that the pastor was one of the Lord’s anointed. During a Bill Hibles He emphasized how when the Israeliteswere in a battle they prevailed as long as Moses held up his arms. When he weakened, the tide turned. Then Aaron and the priests held Mose’s arms up for him. All the years I served as elder I lived with that lesson. I agree with your post Rocky. It says the same support moses received is necessary for pastors today. Thanks for the reminder
Dave Boyer
Ah, the wisdom of someone who’s been around! Thanks for sharing this, Dave.
Gray hair is a crown of glory; it is gained in a righteous life. Prov 16:31
Very good. From pew side, I would suggest that pastors ask members to pray for them. Also: share and inform of duties, burdens, needs, and goals. This would help members to understand the pastor much better. Of course this article is directed to pastors and churches which are true, and Bible believing. Some churches go all summer with only Sunday AM services. I know church which has no services during the summer except for picnics, etc. Such examples may cause even members of good churches to think the pastor does not have a "real" job. Thanks.
Great ideas for the pastor to share his burdens and responsibilities, Don. The lay leaders in the church could also help their fellow congregants understand the scope of their pastor’s responsibilities.
I know some churches do hit the ‘pause’ button on a lot of activities over the summer. Many times this is due to the vacation/travel schedules of the congregation. But it’s also a time with less conflicts and distractions for the church to try new things and for leaders to reach out to those that are there for some direct discipleship opportunities.
As we often say here at Man in the Mirror, "Don’t surrender the summer!"
Thank you for your true, insightful observations and encouragement.
God bless, Bob Parikh
You’re welcome, Bob. Praying God will bless you too!
After having been a pastor for 30 years, I have given my best years to Gods service. I have also worked in different jobs such as carpenter, painter, bus driver, plumber, substance abuse counselor, newspaper writer, employment specialist, etc. I worked these jobs because I have been a church planter and pastor end small churches. It is easy to be arrogant and prideful concerning pastors because we don’t think they have a real job. It is truly pride. I have been on both sides. A pastors world is to watch after the souls of men who struggle in their marriage, have children who are on drugs, etc, which are things that the "working man" doesn’t see. Men should repent of their pride because they are judging something they have no idea about.
Thanks for this insight, Thomas. And thanks for your faithfulness to God’s calling on your life.
"I’m not asking you to trust your pastor no matter what. I’m encouraging you to trust God no matter what. He put your pastor in that position, and He loves the church more than you do."
If you had any idea the evil (yes, evil) I’ve seen done behind this exact banner in Fundamentalism, you would tremble and vomit and weep.
I probably shouldn’t personalize this response, but I’m going to anyway. Jason Harris, I appreciate what you said…and I totally understand. However, your experience(s) doesn’t change the truth of Brett’s statement.
Certainly, there are lunatics/heretics/dictators out there. The best way to deal with that is to leave.
@Harold Burrell,
I understand that lunatics/heretics/dictators will take good and true ideas and twist them. That is not the issue I’m raising. What I’m saying is that the logic of the statement I quoted is dangerously wrong.
"I’m not asking you to trust your pastor no matter what. I’m encouraging you to trust God no matter what. He put your pastor in that position, and He loves the church more than you do."
Here’s the logic as I understand it.
1) It is not necessary to trust your pastor.
2) Because he is appointed by God.
3) Therefore, to trust your pastor IS to trust God.
If this logic is valid, it naturally and correctly follows that until the evidence is stacked so high that a pastor’s appointment by God cannot be defended, he should be trusted and followed. And this is a recipe for systematic destruction and evil.
Jason, thanks for your thoughtful replies to this post. It is difficult when any leader (pastor or otherwise) is leading/preaching in an unbiblical way.
However, I think you’re taking a paragraph out of context. This article isn’t about "lunatics/heretics/dictators", but about beleaguered pastors whose men are more likely to complain, undermine and nitpick than be brothers in Christ. My encouragement is to understand how difficult of a job being a pastor is. And then to respond by serving, loving and praying for your pastor. If a pastor’s tenure is unhealthy because their theology or style is unbiblical, and it can’t be addressed effectively, most likely your best choice is to leave.
I’ve seen a lot of pastors, and while there have been a few who clearly should not be in the pulpit or in the senior pastor position, the overwhelming majority of the time that is not the case.
Brett, I took a full paragraph. One that seems to be a summarising, concluding paragraph. That’s not out of context.
I agree with the general ideas of the article if you’re thinking of "pastors" as a different class of people from the laity; a full-time vocational elite. That’s just not how I read the Bible.
I’m glad if your experience of pastors has been good. But the problems I’m touching on are endemic in conservative Christianity. If we’re willing to see it. There is an elitist, priestly mentality that will find no support in Scripture.
Thanks Jason. Praying with you for the church.
Re: pastors apparently not knowing what it’s like ‘in the real world’ – all your points, of course, are valid. But they don’t even address the most obvious one: a vast majority of pastors only became pastors in their 30s or 40s. They have spent time in ‘real world’ jobs. My current pastor was a highschool science teacher. My previous pastor was a highschool maths teacher. I have another pastor friend who was a PR advisor. Another who was also a highschool science teacher. Another who was a scientist. It’s just ridiculous to say a pastor wouldn’t know what it’s like ‘in the real world’.
This is a great point, Leah. Thanks!
Brett
Thanks Brett. "You might not always understand or agree with everything they say or every decision they make. But you also don’t have all the information they have."
As a pastor for twenty years more than once have I seen this reality make mountains out of mole hills. "Ah come on you can tell me." Laity often fail to understand there is a time to speak and a time turn the mute on. I believe God’s man knows when that is and the laity will just have to trust him.
Great thought, R.D. We need to understand that pastors have to hold a lot of information in confidence. Sometimes sharing it would make them feel better and even make things easier for them. But confidentiality and restraint are key for an effective pastor – something every man should learn to practice!
Thank you very much for that. It rings true, it connects. There are so many pastors who are abused and taken for granted by their charges. On both sides there needs to be a space where such frank discussions can be engaged in.
Absolutely, Teddy. We need open communication between pastors and their men for sure!
I fully understand and grasp the point of the post. Having said that, I do tire of the "us in ministry" and "you in the secular world" discussions with each side telling the other how hard their job is and how under appreciated they are.
The reality is that both have immense challenge and benefit. What they both have in common, is that God has intentionally called us to various platforms to be ministers of the gospel and serve the body. Some as garbage men, business owners, teachers, pastors, retail workers etc. Each has an exposure to people… both lost and saved, and both have good days and bad. Both have those who are lazy, and those who work tirelessly… All are necessary to the operation of the church and expansion of the kingdom. We are all slaves to righteousness, regardless of the assigned task or area of responsibility… we are all slaves to Him, set free from a common history of sin and hopelessness.
Regardless if you are called or not to be a "paid" ambassador does not relieve us of the duty to represent the Savior. We are charged with much of the same duties and responsibilities to be carried out in different facets and settings of life; our church, families and work places.
Love God, love people, share the Gospel, lead your family, invest in the lives of others, have a passion for righteousness and anticipate His return. Just keep the main thing, the main thing — and come Lord Jesus!
Great thoughts Nate. I totally agree with you that all callings are holy. Whether it’s an insurance agent, teacher, pastor, custodian or stay-at-home mom. Each has its unique difficulties on a day-to-day basis. And each has its responsibilities to proclaim the gospel and build the Kingdom in its context. Thanks for your admonition to "keep the main thing, the main thing"!
I’m not sure why anyone would say that pastors don’t know what it’s like in the real world. The real problem is that they have no idea how to do their job.